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Mar 1, 2005 19:31:03 GMT -8
Post by DigitalDeath~*DS*~ on Mar 1, 2005 19:31:03 GMT -8
if size matters then get yourself a .25 small enough to fit inside the palm of your hand, accurate, and bullets tend to ricochet once inside a body. but they tend to jam, more so then others. not sure if u wanted just 45's but glocks are always reliable, less accurate though and berretas are good also and are very accurate. try going to a gun club were u can test them out... or just make yourself a bomb then u dont have to shoot at all. a lot less work.. www.gogethosted.com/sigs/digital-sig-1.jpg [/img]
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Mar 1, 2005 23:44:25 GMT -8
Post by X S U R G E X DS X on Mar 1, 2005 23:44:25 GMT -8
hey DD, theres always a black martket for grenades
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Mar 2, 2005 6:56:58 GMT -8
Post by HAMMERHEAD~*DS*~ on Mar 2, 2005 6:56:58 GMT -8
For the inexperienced, I would go with a pocket/micro .40 Cal or .45 Cal DA/DAO (Double Action/Double Action Only), rather than a micro 1911 .45 cal model. A .45 Cal might be a little punishing to the untrained hand and takes a little more training to handle correctly. These are the guns I would choose for small self defense weapons (Pocket/Micro). They are all great, high-end guns,with the exception of the Kahr, which is middle of the road. They will cost a little more than some cheaper brands, but they will last a lifetime and you won't have the worries about something breaking when you need it the most. Kahn MK 40 Micro: www.kahr.com/review_gm_0400.htmlSpringfield Armory 3" Sub-Compact XD .45 Cal: www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-sub-compact.shtmlGlock 27 .40 Cal: www.glock.com/g27.htmKimber Ultra-Carry .45 Cal: www.kimberamerica.com/ultra.phpSig P239 .40 Cal: www.sigarms.com/products/classicpersonalsize-models.asp?product_id=43You can also check out guns from HK, Taurus, Colt, S&W; all should be pretty good for what you need it for. Here are two very important rules I have learned in almost 30 years of shooting, 17 years as a soldier and 14 years as a Federal Agent (the Army and Federal Agent run concurrently, so I am not like 60 years old): 1. TRAIN REPEATEDLY: Shoot the gun a lot! Take it to the range and shoot, shoot, shoot! Practice loading and unloading (safely), practice putting the weapon in and out of action, practice with the safeties, and practice repeatedly, I mean REPEATEDLY, taking the weapon out from cover (holster or under clothes) so that it is second nature and burned into your muscle memory. Do this safely. If you have to, take a class or get a mentor to walk you through the use and firing of your weapon. Bottom line here is that in an emergency situation, you will react how you have been trained...SO TRAIN! 2. PRE-PROGRAM YOUR MINDSET: A lot of people train with their weapons and are quite good on the range, but when S*** hits the fan, they freeze and die or get hurt. Worse yet, someone who trusted them to protect them gets killed or hurt. You have to be able to shoot the gun when you need to. If you pull your weapon out, you have to be 100% ready to use it and most likely, cause another person serious bodily harm or death. A lot of people think they can do it and find out at the worst time that they can't. You never really know until it happens to you (pray it doesn't because it can be a rough experience ) But if you pre-program yourself to accept those facts, before a situation arrises, you will be more likely to do what you have to do to get through it. You need to find someone (in person) who specializes in personal defense or who has been in a situation like this to help you accomplish this. I hope this helps you out Bro. If you have any other questions, let me know. - HH
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Mar 2, 2005 9:39:47 GMT -8
Post by X S U R G E X DS X on Mar 2, 2005 9:39:47 GMT -8
Guns... I persionaly disagree with having a gun in my house. kids growing up will get attention from them and they gonna want to have one. Thats a proven fact that the way the father is , thats the path the son is going to take. If father smokes or mom, most likly the kid will do the same. If parents cuss, most likly they will too. If dady has a gun in his safe, the kid is going to want to get it! protection, i dont know man. If you live in a certin hood, maybe. But i think that most people who have guns, dont really need them. I am not saying i am against guns, but it just makes me think that if a 20 year old decides to buy a gun and says its for protection, i think he is either invold in something or he just doesnt trust in himself and god. buttom line, if god has a sertin date planed for you, its going to have either way. God is my weapon, i ask for his protection of my house and i know that is the best that i can receive in this world. But i am not against guns, if you feel like you must have a gun and thats the only way that can save your life, than that's just something that makes you feel confadent. Heck, if i was in the army i would have a stash of guns, but since i aint, i rather not go into guns. My woman's side of a family has guns. They live out in the country. sometimes i come over and grab there shotgun and 9mm and a old 22 and i go in there backyard and shoot some living things in the there pond. I can show you a picture of Dima , i was hanging out with him all day, riding his dirt bike that i got for his B-Day, We were eating peanuts and floating around in there pond. Hey, what ever makes him happy I will post some pictures of me and my woman in the "pictures" section that has like 8 page's or so, later on tonight!
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Mar 2, 2005 9:40:33 GMT -8
Post by X S U R G E X DS X on Mar 2, 2005 9:40:33 GMT -8
by the way, this is a bad picture of him, kind looks goofy to me ;D
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Mar 2, 2005 11:13:47 GMT -8
Post by thabullet on Mar 2, 2005 11:13:47 GMT -8
I've gotta Mossberg 12-gauge for skeet shootn, but as far as pistols - I have to agree with Surge, I've got no reason to carry... range shooting is just fun though, and that would be the only reason I'd ever purchase a pistol. I fired my dad's Glock 31 a few times, that's a fun gun to shoot - got some kick to it and although I'm not too familiar with normal accuracy for a pistol, it was decently accurate.
BTW, HH, tell me that's not a scope on that Kahn MK 40 Micro !!?!!? lmao. Looks like it could be a really small flashlight, but at first glance it looks like a damn scope!!
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Mar 2, 2005 11:45:58 GMT -8
Post by HAMMERHEAD~*DS*~ on Mar 2, 2005 11:45:58 GMT -8
No Bro, it is a flashlight. There is no practical reason for a scope on a pocket/micro handgun.; it defeats the purpose of concealment.
I respect your views on gun and thankfully, America still has a great mix of people who want to carry concealed firearms (and have them in the home) and those that don't.
My argument for is that everyone who is mature, legally able, physically able and wants to have a firearm, should be able to have a firearm. As the old saying goes, "An armed society is a polite society".
Look at England. No private gun ownership, except for certain hunting weapons, and they have a huge violence problem. Criminals know they can commit any crime, because no one is going to answer back with a gun, in fact, the most they will take is an ass beating. Still, they are not going out to commit crimes unarmed, many have handguns. It is so bad now, Britian is arming most of its police officers, which is unheard of.
Now I offer the example of Texas, which was having big violent crimes in the late 80's/early 90's. They reintroduced the concealed carry laws and within two years (long enough to get guns in the hands of decent citizens), violent crime dropped 32%.
I won't force a gun into anyone's hand who doesn't want one, but I encourage encourage a gun-toting society. I think if we started gun training at a young age, enforced rules about storing guns (so kids can't get at them) and where people can carry them, and had strong laws for gun violence, America's crime population would be drastically reduced.
Just my opinion.
- HH
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Mar 2, 2005 13:36:24 GMT -8
Post by NAVYSQURL~*DS*~ on Mar 2, 2005 13:36:24 GMT -8
This is from a buddy of mine in Hobart Tasmania where I spent 3 months watching my ship being built. This was during the time they were passing these gun grab laws. Judge for yourself!!! Subject: Firearms
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts...
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent;Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not! and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns." You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.
The Australian experience proves it. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note Americans, before it's too late!
FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
BE OF THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO WON'T LET THIS HAPPEN IN THE U.S.A
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Mar 2, 2005 14:07:06 GMT -8
Post by Xtanius~*DS*~[PK] on Mar 2, 2005 14:07:06 GMT -8
well, its true...i'm in my early twenties...so in most peoples eyes i probably don't qualify for the highest of maturity levels. However, as inexperienced to life as i may be, I certainly would not want to be walking with my girlfriend from a bar one night and end up face to face with a situation I can't handle. Agreed that most of the time those situations are avoidable...but in the rare occurance that I am nose to nose with a man who wishes her or me harm, I would like to think that I would be ready...and ARMED to protect us. So, as respectable as some of your views on weapons are, I gotta agree with HH... If you understand the potential dangers of carrying, and respect your weapon, you cannot be more safe. Go ahead...steal my wallet...
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Mar 2, 2005 20:50:17 GMT -8
Post by HAMMERHEAD~*DS*~ on Mar 2, 2005 20:50:17 GMT -8
I would not advocate bringing a gun into an establishment that serves alcohol, unless you are a cop like me and on the job. Most states prohibit the possession of firearms in bars.
I used to have an American Arms derringer, two shot gun in case you were not sure. It was .45 Long Colt on the top and .410 stock gun on the bottom. It was encased in a leather wallet with a hole in the center. If someone wanted your wallet, you pulled it out of your back pocket and all they can see is a leather wallet, until you pull the trigger. Sadly, I sold it.
Now I pack a Colt LTC in an SOB (Small of the Back) holster made by Galco. Unless I am wearing my shirt tucked in, you would never know it was there.
In Iraq, I carried the issue M4, and my trusty P299 Sig (M11). I also have a Rem 870 combat for those close-in situations. Of course, they don't do anything for mortars, rockets and IEDs. My ears are still ringing!
- HH
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Mar 2, 2005 20:55:20 GMT -8
Post by HAMMERHEAD~*DS*~ on Mar 2, 2005 20:55:20 GMT -8
Opps, off topic in that last post.
Time after time, it has been demonstrated that gun control laws only control the upstanding citizen. When proper gun laws are in place and upstanding citizens can legally carry concealed, you see the real side of criminals...cowardly. As a result, crime goes down.
Its the old bully syndrome. Why would I want to risk injury by picking on 6'5" linebacker? It is far more safer to go after some old lady or soccer mom with a kid in her arms. A gun is the great equalizer, it makes all men equal. If you never know who has one, you are more likely to watch how you treat people.
- HH
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Mar 2, 2005 23:05:48 GMT -8
Post by thabullet on Mar 2, 2005 23:05:48 GMT -8
Understandable - I can respect that view. Actually, my best friend owns his own business, working on cars out of his house. He owns about 16 different guns, mixed pistols/rifles/shotguns, etc. (All except two are just for show pretty much, old guns that were handed down). Now in that situation, I can see packn a few around the house in case of a sticky situation; running money deposits to the bank and keepin one in the car. He's got his Concealed Weapons license for that reason actually. In fact, after my truck got broken into last year, I've kept my shotgun inside the house, with a nice 4-shot shell sittn right by it. Just in case... But... as far as talkn about carryn a compact with you, on you even, everywhere you go - can't say I agree with that. Seems too probable that instead of being the victim, you'd quickly become the criminal in that instance. Say you got into a fight one night, that things sittn in your back pocket... way me and some of my friends are, that gun would be out in a second. Guess my view on the situation is they're good to have around; sittn at the house, in the trunk of a car, etc. But, guess you would just have to be able to control yourself when you got it around tuckd in a convenient spot. Like a back pocket Also, Florida's 10-20-Life policy doesn't really appeal too much to me either. Get a taser instead Haha, jk - I actually had one of those things, police issued; evil lil' bastards too
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Mar 2, 2005 23:09:55 GMT -8
Post by Xtanius~*DS*~[PK] on Mar 2, 2005 23:09:55 GMT -8
now we're talking!!!
A TAZER! booyeah! I'm all in on that one...
I do understand the views (both sides) on guns...but quite frankly, if the situation ever arose where i needed one, I'd much rather be in court for shooting someone than having my mother picking out my headstone...
just a thought.
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Mar 3, 2005 0:25:57 GMT -8
Post by DateRIF~*DS*~ on Mar 3, 2005 0:25:57 GMT -8
We need better parents badly.
Fight situation:
Don't put yourself in that situation. Walk away or don't carry.
Getting robbed:
Throw the wallet and run. IF life threatening, instead of being lazy, learn some hand to hand tactics and use his gun. Most criminals who use guns, use them because they cant kick your ass or have no formal training.
Situation where carrying is good:
If you want to protect someone, bring a gun, it increases the chances of successfully protecting them.
In Iraq I am not a shooter, so I dont carry, not even a little pistol on me. The average insurgent would be easily man handled since I am almost twice their size and despite appearances I was a very rough kid, 4 years of EE can change a lot. If I need a gun there are usually no less than 10 guns around me at any moment.
So pretty much learn a disciplined fighting technique, then learn to shoot and automatically like HH said, then you get a gun for use in only the most drastic situation. E.g. dude is threatening a loved one and needs to be handled ASAP. I learned guns at a young age and it is good lesson in discipline, especially when u realize what taking a life is and how important it is to respect the gun. And most importantly, listen to guys like HH, he has been around the block a few times. I work with x-SF, x-Marines, and x-Seals daily and have learned a butt load from them.
HEHE... kinda veared off topic now did we... this clan has no focus WTF! LMAO. Personally I dont carry in the states and probably never will, but my reason for doing so is I know and have faith in those that do. I love Texas, everyone has a gun for me to use. Can't help out much on what to get, but I think going to the gun club and try what feels best to you. Or listen to HH he has probably field tested enough weapons.
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Mar 3, 2005 8:30:58 GMT -8
Post by HAMMERHEAD~*DS*~ on Mar 3, 2005 8:30:58 GMT -8
I agree with DATE, if you don't like guns or can't legally carry one, then get something else. Learn self defense, either unarmed or with a legal weapon like a kubotan. Just make sure you devote enough time and energy into it and know that it will be awhile to gain your skills. Too many people think attending a weekend self-defense class is going make them a Chuck Norris badass, and they wind up just getting their asses kicked. Fact is, you are not good at anything if your don't practice and train, train and practice, until it is second nature.
Tazer's are good, but there is a danger of electricuting yourself as well (wet conditions or skin to skin contact with the perp). Also, they don't work too well through heavier clothing.
OC or Pepperspray is also good, but it only works aoubt half the time. You have to be right on target with your delivery, it can blow back in your face and get on you when the guy charges you, and it does not work very well on the mentally insane or drug intoxicated.
I used to be really good at self defense and I can probably take some pretty big guys down quick (with speed, surprise and savagery). I'm also pretty good with a knife, but certainly not in the operator class, like a seal or delta would be. I can deploy a knife in a skillful and speedy manner to end a lot of threats. I use an Emerson CQC-7 Combat Folder and keep it sharp. I go for the quick cut, maybe in the crook if the arm, on the achilles tendion, across the wrist, or go under the arm for a stab into the vitals. I also know how to take someone down from the back and go up through the base of the skull for a three second kill. Of course, this would probably not be a legal self defense move.
Anyway, my point is that in these uncertain times, if you care about yourself and the people who you love, it may be a good idea to find a way to protect yourself. Just make sure it is based in reality, your practice and train to make sure you have a chance to be effective, and be prepared for the consequences, like the bad guy being a better badass or you end up getting sued. I almost got sued by a guy who I took down...rather hard too. Of course, he got a few late night visits from some people who will remain unnamed and suddenly decided not to pursue his litigation. MUHAHAHAHA!
Just a tip here, if you someone breaks in your house, shoot to kill. Just make sure you get him in the front of his body, while he is in your house, and not at super close range (we cops can tell). That way he can't sue you or come back for revenge on your family. Also, some states have "places of last defense laws", which means you can only use deadly force if you are forced into the place of last defense (bedrooms are always PLDs). Know your laws.
- HH
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